Are we 'Spiritual Israel' now? Does God have a future plan for the nation of Israel?

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Question / Comment - We are all 'Spiritual Israel' now. God does not have a future plan for the nation of Israel.

Where are the scriptures that teach fleshly Israel would receive the promises God made IF they did not obey? They disobey God kept his word. The kingdom was taking from fleshly Israel and gave it to a nation that would bring forth fruit...all the promises belong to spiritual Israel. So for anyone to inherited that person must become a spiritual Jew during this gospel age or the age to come. There is no inheritance for the bond woman and her children.

JPN Reply

Hi, the prophecies are clear that God will be faithful to keep his word even though the nation of Israel has disobeyed Him. For example here (below) is a passage that describes the nation of Israel's sin and disobedience, it describes how God would scatter them among the nations because of it (which God did starting in 70AD), it then describes how He will bring that nation back to the land of Israel (which He did starting with them becoming a nation again in 1948), and God points out VERY CLEARLY that He will do this NOT because of their obedience or goodness but because of HIS NAME'S SAKE. It then goes on to describe how God will cleanse them and pour out His Spirit upon them and they will be His people again. This is still to occur. It is as completely assured as the rest of the prophecy has already proved true.

Eze 36:16-28 Again the word of the LORD came to me: (17) Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman's monthly uncleanness in my sight. (18) So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. (19) I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. (20) And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the LORD's people, and yet they had to leave his land.' (21) I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone. (22) Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. (23) I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes. (24) 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. (25) I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. (26) I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. (28) You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.

It is for this reason that Paul assured us that the nation will be saved AFTER the fullness of the gentiles have come in. WHY? Because they are loved because of the promises given to their Fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and God's choice of that nation. And God never goes back on those that He has chosen. Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they (nation of Israel) are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

All the best
Their Reply:

God loves the world for his name sake and has promised to bless all the families of the earth by Christ. "in you and in your seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. Does that mean one does not have to be faithful to receive God's promises? God gathered Israel from Egypt and he gathered them after the Babylonian captivity from among the nations, which was the second time... Where in the scriptures did God say he would gather Israel a third time?...

JPN Reply:


By your method of counting the returns of the Jews to their land, not only has their been a 'third' return, but their will also be a fourth return which is still to come. In describing the worldwide return of the Jews to Israel, the Hebrew prophets said there would first be a return in unbelief and then a return in faith. Hebrew Scholar Arnold Fruchtenbaum writes concerning this saying:

"The re-establishment of the Jewish state in 1948 has not only thrown a wrench in amillennial thinking, but it has also thrown a chink in much of premillennial thinking. Amazingly, some premillennialists have concluded that the present state of Israel has nothing to do with the fulfilment of prophecy. For some reason the present state some how does not fit their scheme of things, and so the present state becomes merely an accident of history. On what grounds is the present state of Israel so dismissed? The issue that bothers so manypremillennialists is the fact that not only have the Jews returned in unbelief with regard to the person of Jesus, but the majority of the ones who have returned are not even Orthodox Jews. In fact the majority are atheists or agnostics. Certainly, then, Israel does not fit in with all those biblical passages dealing with the return. For it is a regenerated nation that the Bible speaks of, and the present state of Israel hardly fits that picture. So on these grounds, the present state is dismissed as not being a fulfilment of prophecy. However, the real problem is the failure to see that the prophets spoke of two international returns. First, there was to be a regathering in unbelief in preparation for judgment, namely the judgment of the tribulation. This was to be followed by a second world-wide regathering in faith in preparation for blessing, namely the blessings of the messianic age. Once it is recognized that the Bible speaks of two such regatherings, it is easy to see how the present state of Israel fits into prophecy."

As Fructembaum mentions, the first worldwide return (fulfilled in the establishment of the nation of Israel in 1948 and the subsequent return of its people) is in unbelief, in preparation for judgement, and is in fulfilment of such verses like

Ezek. 20:33-38; 22:17-22; 36:22-24; 37:1–14; Isa. 11:11-12; Zeph. 2:1-2 and Ezek. 38–39

The second worldwide regathering is in belief and blessing is a fulfilment of verses such as Deut. 4:29-31; 30:1-10; Isa. 27:12-13; 43:5-7; Jer. 16:14-15; 31:7-10; Ezek. 11:14-18; Amos 9:14-15; Zech. 10:8-12; Matt. 24:31

Isa 11:11 Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand The remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea. Isa 11:12 And He will lift up a standard for the nations and assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

There are some clear reasons why the return from Babylon does not fulfil these scriptures as you would like it to - 

1. Isaiah 11 (above) speaks of a 2nd gathering from a world wide (the four corners of the earth) dispersal. The Babylonian captivity was not a worldwide captivity. The worldwide dispersal started in 70AD. The first regathering, as mentioned above, from the world wide dispersal was in unbelief following the formation of Israel as a nation again in 1948. The second one mentioned is in belief at that end of the tribulation.

2. The return from the Babylonian captivity was a return from the east. The return from the worldwide dispersal is from all directions such as stated in Isa 43:

Isa 43:5 "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west. Isa 43:6 "I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth...'

3. The prophets foretold of a regathering of the Jews to Israel from which they would never be uprooted from again. Seeing that they were uprooted in 70Ad and dispersed among the nations, these prophecies can only apply to a regathering after 70AD - and it says they will never be uprooted again.

‘I will plant them, and not uproot them.’ (Jeremiah 24:6). ‘I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them.’ (Amos 9:15). Jerusalem ‘shall never again be uprooted or overthrown.’ (Jeremiah 31:40).

The fact is, if we can't trust God to fulfil what He has promised to the nation of Israel then we can't trust Him to fulfil what He has promised to His church, the body of Christ. It says of God that he is like a man after all who changes His mind and doesn't do what He promised. I will always oppose that for that is not God. As Numbers says:

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Rom 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Rom 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Now, the process that God uses to the bring the nation of Israel back to Himself and acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah is a very difficult road. The Hebrew prophets have declared all that Israel will go through to get to that point. Hosea said:

Hos 5:14-15 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim And like a young lion to the house of Judah. I, even I, will tear to pieces and go away, I will carry away, and there will be none to deliver. I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.

Jeremiah called what is to come 'the time of Jacob's trouble'. But note that they will be saved out of this time:

Jer 30:5-7 "For thus says the LORD, 'I have heard a sound of terror, Of dread, and there is no peace. 'Ask now, and see If a male can give birth. Why do I see every man With his hands on his loins, as a woman in childbirth? And why have all faces turned pale? 'Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob's distress, But he will be saved from it.

Zechariah saw that all nations of the earth will come against Israel (Zech 12:3,14:2) but Israel will come to see and acknowledge their Messiah:
Zec 12:10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

God will fulfil all that He has promised them. Not for their sake, but for His names sake.

Ezekiel 36:19-32 "Also I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and their deeds I judged them. (20) "When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them, 'These are the people of the LORD; yet they have come out of His land.' (21) "But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. (22) "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. (23) "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. (24) "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. (25) "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. (26) "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (28) "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. (29) "Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. (30) "I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. (31) "Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. (32) "I am not doing this for your sake," declares the Lord GOD, "let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!"

Praise God that He does what He says... He is good!

All the best.